Understanding Session Zero: The Foundation of Your RPG Adventure
The central focus of this podcast episode revolves around the critical importance of Session Zero in tabletop role-playing games (TTRPGs). I, the Nerd Doctor, in concert with my esteemed colleague DM Scott, expound upon the fundamental purpose of Session Zero, which is to establish a cohesive foundation for the game by aligning player expectations and discussing character creation, campaign themes, and table dynamics. This pre-campaign meeting serves as an invaluable opportunity for players to not only understand the world they are entering but also to forge connections with one another, thereby enhancing the overall immersive experience of the game. We delve into the nuances of how much should be predetermined versus discovered organically during gameplay, emphasizing the significant role that player backstories and character motivations play in enriching the narrative tapestry of the campaign. Ultimately, our discourse illustrates that a well-conducted Session Zero can significantly elevate the quality of gameplay and foster a collaborative environment that enhances storytelling for both players and the Dungeon Master.
Takeaways:
- Session zero serves as a foundational meeting to align player expectations and campaign goals.
- It is imperative to encourage players to define their characters' backstories collaboratively during session zero.
- The balance between sharing lore and allowing players to discover the world organically is a critical aspect of session zero.
- Establishing clear boundaries and safety tools is essential to ensure a comfortable gaming environment for all participants.
Transcript
Right.
Speaker A:All right.
Speaker A:Welcome to the Ford Cast, episode 2, session 0.
Speaker A:I am the Nerd Doctor, here to identify what's wrong with your RPG games and here to help you fix it.
Speaker A:Here I'm joined here with my friend DM Scott.
Speaker A:Scott, just real quick, what's your experience in D and D TTRPGs?
Speaker B:I have zero life.
Speaker B:All I do is play D and D. No, I've been playing for about 29 years, so a long, long time.
Speaker B:Mostly being the DM too.
Speaker A:Yeah, a lot less for me.
Speaker A:I've been paying playing seven years, mostly as a dm.
Speaker A:Only this past year as I got to experience the thrill of being a player mostly because of you.
Speaker A:But yeah, that's my experience.
Speaker A:And again, you're just baseline.
Speaker A:About this overall podcast is, you know, it's about session zero, commonly defined as the pre campaign meeting where the group aligns on the foundation of the game.
Speaker A:This typically includes discussing the campaign premise and tome, creating characters, setting table expectations like scheduling rules and play style, establishing boundaries and sometimes connecting characters to each other in the world.
Speaker A:The goal is to usually get everyone on the same page before session one begins.
Speaker A:But how much should be defined versus discovered is the approach where things often differ.
Speaker A:So, first question, first segment.
Speaker A:What is session zero really?
Speaker A:So what do you think session zero is actually trying to accomplish?
Speaker B:Just setting the stage of the whole game?
Speaker B:Well, not necessarily a campaign, but at least as we said in session one.
Speaker B:To me, everything's about the individual player.
Speaker B:We're setting it where this individual, each individual player knows who they are in the community, their contacts.
Speaker B:You're giving them some lore about, about the world so they know like if it's a high fantasy, if they know that they're in hell or, or whatever in some, you know, basic low level magic setting.
Speaker B:So it's just kind of an introduction not only to the world, but for the player.
Speaker B:An introduction for the player in your world.
Speaker A:Yep.
Speaker A:Yeah, I couldn't agree more.
Speaker A:Me.
Speaker A:It's also, it's also a chance to, if they're someone you haven't played with before, it's a chance to kind of get to know people.
Speaker A:I mean, maybe you vet them before session zero.
Speaker A:Maybe you spent some time with them in session zero.
Speaker A:Kind of depends on where, where you met this person, how you know them or how they're being incorporated.
Speaker A:But it is a chance to just kind of get to know people and what their thoughts are on what they want to play as well.
Speaker B:Yeah, absolutely.
Speaker B:And I think, I mean, session zero is a lot about, I mean do you think it's more about you dumping a whole bunch of lore on them or more about the character's background?
Speaker A:So it's less about the lore for me.
Speaker A:Although I think that a lot of people use lore as like a targeter.
Speaker A:Like, here's my lore, here's what the story is about.
Speaker A:Are you interested in this story, which I think is before session zero.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:I typically send out an email just describing what the general common knowledge information is and the world you're living in.
Speaker B:Whether it's high fantasy, hey, you're starting off in the abyss, or, you know, so that way they have an understanding, what am I entering in?
Speaker B:You know, so that way they can help figure out what kind of class or race is going to fit into that world.
Speaker A:Yeah, no, perfect example too, because I agree, like the lure is kind of before session zero.
Speaker A:That's kind of gets people thinking.
Speaker A:But session zero is the time where it's more about alignment.
Speaker A:Like, what are, what are we trying to accomplish for the game?
Speaker A:Or just hashing out player party dynamics, if people even care about that.
Speaker A:I mean, sometimes players don't care.
Speaker A:And we can have a full Ninja Turtle squad tile, everyone's playing a monk character, or we can actually strategically choose beforehand.
Speaker A:But that's all stuff we can hash out on session zero.
Speaker A:But I think it's a great time for having everyone at the table sitting, sitting down, face to face, dm, getting out all the questions that you kind of want to get out before session one begins.
Speaker B:Well, typically, as I do, I usually run session zero for each individual player.
Speaker B:So they get their own dedicated time to their character, their place in the world, their introduction to it.
Speaker B:And then in that session they kind of learn who they are.
Speaker B:You know, how do they react when, you know, a lady's being robbed?
Speaker B:Do they mind their business?
Speaker B:Do they intervene?
Speaker B:They start, they start developing an alignment and the decision making process and they kind of set a path on how they're going to play, you know.
Speaker A:Well, I think that's the difference between like session zero logistics versus session one, which is like we like to start with the backstories.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:Which, you know, kind of different, kind of the same.
Speaker A:It's just, I think the distinguishing we're trying to make between last.
Speaker A:Our first podcast, which was all about just playing in backstories, and then today just being like, what do we do before we even get into it?
Speaker B:So you're talking about specifically before we even sit down and play.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:Okay.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:I mean, everything that I do is first thing I do is I send out an email where I share general information and then from there people start thinking about how they want to fit into the world and we start communicating back and forth.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:Do you.
Speaker A:Well, I like to sit down with the whole group at the same time, if possible, or at least get everyone in a group chat to.
Speaker A:To have everybody talk and did you do that or.
Speaker B:I specifically don't do that.
Speaker B:I don't want to hear like, who's going to be the cleric or, you know, trying to make the perfect party.
Speaker B:I don't even want them talking to each other.
Speaker B:I don't really.
Speaker B:I think it's so much better when it's more organic in the game and they're not building characters to try to strategize for the best party.
Speaker B:They're just focus on what you are, what you want to be.
Speaker B:Sometimes, I mean, if they ask and they say, well, what are the other people?
Speaker B:You know, you don't want a full party of thieves, but.
Speaker B:And a lot of times your backstory or the information you want to share with me about your character, you don't necessarily want everyone else to know.
Speaker A:Sure.
Speaker B:You know.
Speaker A:Yeah, no, I definitely agree that there's a private conversation that you have with your players at the same time.
Speaker A:And for me, like, I totally understand what you're saying.
Speaker A:Like, I don't.
Speaker A:I definitely don't want people being like, oh, what's the party dynamic?
Speaker A:Who's going to be what?
Speaker A:The only reason I ever really like as a player was like, what's everyone else being?
Speaker A:Is just because I just maybe don't want to be the same class.
Speaker B:Like, I want to have something that I can appreciate.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:But like, I mean, we still just giving our campaign.
Speaker A:We both were rogues right off the bat, like, we were like, oh, this is gonna go well.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:I mean, you had a party of two for half a year of two rogues.
Speaker B:But it worked.
Speaker A:No, it did.
Speaker A:And then he branched off and got a little wizardy.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:Multi class a little bit.
Speaker A:To try to make it a little more versatile, I doubled down on Marshall.
Speaker B:I mean, for the, for the most part, I wouldn't say I meet with any of them.
Speaker B:Most of it's communications for email or messenger.
Speaker B:Just talking about again, what the background, what the world is going to be like, so they can start kind of thinking about.
Speaker B:And I'll give them a focus more on like a specific setting.
Speaker B:Like first I'll tell them whether it's low magic.
Speaker B:I'll send a map, I'll Say this is where you're going to start.
Speaker B:This is the, this is what's going on in the city where there's going on.
Speaker B:Yeah, exactly.
Speaker B:The demographics, things like that.
Speaker B:And then we'll start just communicating back and forth individually about what class they want to be.
Speaker B:And then we'll start going back and forth and how they're going to fit into that world.
Speaker A:Exactly.
Speaker A:And then should session define the campaign or just give it direction?
Speaker B:Are you talking about the actual sit down and playing?
Speaker A:Like, does session zero give anything away versus, like setting the tone or the theme of the campaign?
Speaker A:Or is it just like, here's the direction where we're going, but really it's up to the freedom of the players.
Speaker B:Like, for example, the guy you were playing with, Dave, he played f. And before we even sat down, it was established both of you guys were inside the same city of Cherry Knoll.
Speaker B:He was the son of a powerful, a crime lord, but his father did not acknowledge him as being his son.
Speaker B:And, but at the same time, his father still gave him a job, a job that was like, you know, not really honorable or made him feel good about himself, but the father would never recognize him as being his legitimate son, but still employed him.
Speaker B:And so we started that setting off where Dave already knows he's involved with a crime syndicate.
Speaker B:He knows his father's not acknowledging him as his son.
Speaker B:So this already starts off with Dave thinking, enters the game with kind of some resentment towards his father without even sitting down yet.
Speaker B:So.
Speaker B:And he knows he works at a library.
Speaker B:Like, all these things were established before he.
Speaker B:We even sat down once.
Speaker B:And he knew, like, his involvement with that crime syndicate was basically, he sat in the library, which is a front for, for a warehouse that was a hidden warehouse underneath the, the library that stored things that they were, you know, kidnapped people or contraband and things like that.
Speaker B:He's a babysitter.
Speaker B:But all this was established before we even sat down.
Speaker B:So there's already like, he's already thinking about what he's gonna do.
Speaker A:Yeah, no, makes sense.
Speaker A:And so do you.
Speaker A:And because of all the back and forth, do you have a clear, you have a clear understanding of the player's backstory before.
Speaker B:Yeah, before we even sit down.
Speaker B:And it's a community effort.
Speaker B:Like, they'll.
Speaker B:A lot of times a player will create this big, long backstory.
Speaker B:I give them like, the, the, the information regard where we're starting.
Speaker B:They'll give me this big, long backstory and then we kind of have to go back and forth, you know, Sometimes we're like, I'll get a background where a guy's like, I'm the king's nephew.
Speaker B:I'm like, we need to tone that down a little bit.
Speaker B:That's not gonna work for the campaign.
Speaker B:And we'll go back and forth until both of us are like, you're happy?
Speaker B:Yep, I'm happy.
Speaker A:Let's launch.
Speaker B:You know?
Speaker A:Well, I remember ours too, because, like, I had this concept that I wanted to play, and I remember you saying, like, this is way out there.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:But I'm.
Speaker A:But I'm with it.
Speaker B:I liked it.
Speaker A:So let's see what we can do.
Speaker A:And like, for me, Assassin's Creed was one of my favorite video games.
Speaker A:And so my.
Speaker A:My character was meant to be an Assassin's Creed.
Speaker A:Like, you know, someone who re gets reincarnated.
Speaker A:Reincarnated?
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:So I get reincarnated, you know, every few generations or so.
Speaker A:And then slow memories start to come.
Speaker A:And the way you've kind of worked that in and, like, made it really fun for me, like, to experience all that.
Speaker A:I couldn't be happier with how that went.
Speaker A:But you were really good about taking this idea of this kind of assassin guild brotherhood and the way that it was supposed to feel and fitting it into your world.
Speaker B:You were extremely helpful.
Speaker B:Like, if me and you probably went back with a hundred emails about what your idea was, and you helped defining that idea so I could really incorporate into the game.
Speaker B:And it wasn't like.
Speaker B:Like something that broke the game where I thought, this is not going to work in the city.
Speaker B:It's too powerful or it's too silly.
Speaker B:Like, it worked.
Speaker B:It actually made the world better.
Speaker B:And because of your idea, I've incorporated that whole brotherhood into the campaign now.
Speaker B:You know, I mean, so it was a great idea, a great thing that you added.
Speaker B:And so that's what I'm saying.
Speaker B:Sometimes those backstories actually can, like, really help your campaign overall.
Speaker B:Even though your backstory really wasn't my story, your backstory made my story better.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:You know.
Speaker A:Well, it just begs the question, is the backstory.
Speaker A:Is the order session zero, where we're.
Speaker A:All this communication's happening between you and the players, is that more for the players or more for the dm?
Speaker A:Because the DM can be feeding off the players to help organize his story and world versus, is it for the players to help them organize the story for their.
Speaker B:Well, I think you would agree that it's a community thing.
Speaker B:I think that we're building together us going back and forth and to the point where we're both content, you're help making a character background that you're happy with.
Speaker B:And I'm happy with it because now I can exploit it, use it and build around it and incorporate in the game.
Speaker B:So I think it's a win win for both.
Speaker B:I think it's when you have a player that's not really interested in the backstory, that's that type, you know, a lot of those players, to me that's more like he wants to play a board game and he's not truly invested and it doesn't mean he necessarily need to send 10 pages but have something, have an idea about who this guy is, you know.
Speaker A:And there's nothing inherently wrong with the campaigns that are very combat focused like Gloomhaven and things like that, which are more board game esque.
Speaker A:But at least for us when we're trying to set up a campaign or even if one shot we want to tell a story.
Speaker B:Yeah, absolutely.
Speaker A:What I love about the way that we tend to approach the game is that this binary choice.
Speaker A:Is it for the DM or for the player?
Speaker A:How many times it often both.
Speaker A:Neither either.
Speaker A:It is this really cooperative way that we tend to approach starting campaigns and games that just tends to leave most people happy and satisfied.
Speaker B:Yeah, it is cooperative, but at the same time, I mean not necessarily session zero, but throughout the game, the way we run it like sandbox style.
Speaker B:Like there's lots of times where the decisions that you guys made are not what I have anticipated and I literally just take my notes and throw them away.
Speaker B:But I, you know, but I love that, that, that style of play of you know, we throw out breadcrumbs but you don't necessarily follow them.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:Well I think that honestly playing with you because I was the M who ran.
Speaker A:I ran pre published stuff with all my.
Speaker B:The kind of fixed.
Speaker A:I made my own world.
Speaker A:Yep.
Speaker A:But like I played off the book, you know, that's the way that was the way I played.
Speaker A:I tried to definitely make sure that character backstories and stuff were incorporated in some way.
Speaker A:And honestly trying to fit some people's ideas into pre made modules could be very.
Speaker B:It could be difficult.
Speaker A:Yeah, but, but I think playing well, not think I know that playing with you and the approach that I've learned from you has helped me be much more open and comfortable with sandbox style games to the point where like it wasn't that long ago I made a short little.
Speaker A:Oh yeah, it was Game of Thrones.
Speaker B:Module and it was very like you'd Thrown out some, you know, some bread crumbs we'll call them.
Speaker B:But at no point did I feel in your game that I wasn't in control of my decisions or compelled to do what you wanted me to do.
Speaker B:You know, I'm participating in your story, but at the same time I'm playing this guy that I've created and I think would do this.
Speaker B:So I do this.
Speaker B:You know what I mean?
Speaker B:So.
Speaker B:And you are very accommodating to that because whatever I did, you may have anticipated with your breadcrumbs that I took the right turn and instead I took the left.
Speaker B:And you just were able to kind of just switch gears.
Speaker A:Well, I didn't certainly expect to break your character's mental fortitude, that's for sure.
Speaker B:Yeah, I mean, and you know, it's starting with those modules as, as like a beginning DM is a great way just to get an introduction into the game because it's definitely very difficult to, to improvise.
Speaker B:You know what I mean?
Speaker A:Well, it's, it's made like I the way my.
Speaker A:Because I'm writing a module right now and of course in my head there's two, two versions of me.
Speaker A:There's one who's used to playing 3D modules and gearing one towards people who need some structure and some a little bit of help those new DMs.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:But there's also the sandboxy style with me who's like how am I going to plan for every possible decision?
Speaker A:But it's like I feel like I'm writing it in a different way than most modules are written these days where it's like really trying to like a.
Speaker B:Little more open ended.
Speaker A:Yeah, more open ended and like more just like notes for the dm.
Speaker A:Like, like here's how you customize it around your players decisions versus you don't have to go this way or that way.
Speaker A:It's just here's where you're at, here's the choices.
Speaker A:They make this one go to this chapter.
Speaker A:They make this one go to this.
Speaker B:They need to get to the top of the tower.
Speaker B:There's a door there.
Speaker B:Be prepared for them not to use the door.
Speaker B:You know what I mean?
Speaker B:Like you don't have to force them.
Speaker A:To use the door, but to the, to the kind of answering the question at the top is like I do think that session zero benefits the DM just as much if not more than the players because you know, it can set your players mindset for, for the first session, but it can really help Your DM know the characters in a much more in depth level, their backstories and incorporating them to your world so that you know your world better.
Speaker A:Which just makes it much more easy for the sans buck stuff, don't you think?
Speaker B:Also the other thing that it helps with is when you meet with your players and you find out what they're going to be and who they are in the world, you can kind of step back and look at your group of players and where he is and who he is and where they is.
Speaker B:And then the way we run games, we don't just throw them all together and start off session one, we start them separate.
Speaker B:But now you can kind of see from a distance where each.
Speaker B:Who these players are.
Speaker B:And then you can start kind of thinking about how you're going to weave them together because now you know who they are.
Speaker B:You know this one has got a problem with that person.
Speaker B:And you can start weaving their stories together slowly.
Speaker A:You know, I think it's personally gratifying when you can, you know how easy it can be sometimes.
Speaker A:Like it.
Speaker A:I think people can be intimidated sometimes.
Speaker A:But when you do look at that, you're like, oh, this is gonna be a fun little twist in the story.
Speaker A:This is gonna be fun little pull and things like that.
Speaker B:And it doesn't always happen.
Speaker B:There's lots of times where we've ran games where I.
Speaker B:You have this character and this character and I have this idea of how they're going to make it as organic as I can make them kind of cross paths and that will be an introduction and maybe we can take off from that.
Speaker B:And they've literally just ridden right past each other.
Speaker B:And it happens sometimes.
Speaker A:Well, it makes me think that like, you know, gimmicks are fun.
Speaker A:You know, it just be.
Speaker A:Just because it's not planned.
Speaker A:It is, it's 100% planned.
Speaker A:Yeah, but just because it's.
Speaker A:Just because it's planned doesn't mean it can't be fun.
Speaker A:And in fact, I think what players respect most is the creative way that we tend to come up with bringing them together.
Speaker B:Yeah, absolutely.
Speaker B:And you want the player to feel like he wasn't forced upon this player or forced to like this player or that if it makes sense for your character to want to help him, the game's just so much better than I know I'm supposed to help him because this is what the game is supposed to be.
Speaker B:I'm supposed to join him for our campaign to work.
Speaker B:You don't want that.
Speaker B:You want them to want their Characters to want or not necessarily even like each other.
Speaker B:They don't have to.
Speaker B:We've had campaigns where the characters, some of them hate each other, but the common goal.
Speaker B:And it creates some awesome role playing too, because they don't like each other, they're bickering at campfires.
Speaker B:Some of the role playing scenes we've had have been awesome.
Speaker A:Well, it was, I mean, just to.
Speaker A:Just to highlight that point.
Speaker A:Like, you know, when we talk about how me and my character split, which is totally for another time, but me, my character and F split from our campaign.
Speaker A:Like, there was so much buildup that like you could see from the messages that were flying in between sessions and the conversations that there was, like there was emotion.
Speaker A:There was a legitimate feeling of like, aggravation and frustration and just like, to the point where like, everyone knew something was gonna happen.
Speaker A:Yeah, I like, like a line was gonna get crossed, but it was just like.
Speaker B:I know we're dabbling a little bit into the role playing part, but it's great too.
Speaker B:If I think the, the most, the best feeling for me is when I can pull real feelings.
Speaker B:I can actually make you a picture pissed about what this NPC did.
Speaker A:Well, my only point about that is like, this was a year in the making, but like, that moment wouldn't have happened without session zero.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:And.
Speaker A:And wouldn't have happened without our backstory and us crossing paths in those ways.
Speaker B:Gotcha.
Speaker A:So, like, even though kind of going back to that kind of last question is, you know, is it campaign?
Speaker A:Define the campaign or not?
Speaker A:It can.
Speaker A:It can define the campaign if done right and maybe not intentionally, it's just more like.
Speaker A:But it can set the tone for.
Speaker B:I definitely think it sets the tone for the individual player and it also gives the DM this kind of ability kind of step back and just look at where everyone is in their little worlds and what's going on and to be able to start working their magic to bring to bringing them together.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:Well, it begs the question, know, what do most people do as far as session zero?
Speaker B:What.
Speaker A:What gets the most time?
Speaker A:World building, character creation.
Speaker A:Do most session zeros feel like a conversation or presentation?
Speaker A:Do you know what others tend to do?
Speaker A:I can only tell you what I've experienced, but I mean, I've.
Speaker B:I've gone to some games.
Speaker B:I haven't.
Speaker B:I'm not much of a. I haven't played many games, but I've been invited to games and I've played a few times.
Speaker B:And what I see a lot is a lot of DM'S will start the game off session one.
Speaker B:But backstory is not really being utilized.
Speaker B:They're more focused, focused on telling their story to the group than the, you know, than having the players kind of know who they are and how they met each other.
Speaker B:You know, you know, the, the basic story of you guys are all at a bar and a guy walks in with a bag of gold, say, I'm looking to hire some adventurers, and four of you raised your hand, now you're questing.
Speaker B:I think that's probably done more than utilizing backstories and get your players, like, immersed in your world and then slowly unraveling whatever your campaign idea is.
Speaker A:Yeah, I mean, that's been my experience too, is like, I've played some online.
Speaker A:I've tried to play some online.
Speaker A:I said my first one was really with you.
Speaker A:I played some as a player online.
Speaker A:It didn't last very long just because of the situation that with the online game.
Speaker A:But like, yours is the first campaign that I've gotten to play in, and then my Cousins is the second campaign I've gotten to play in.
Speaker A:But just as my experience, the DM before I met you was exactly that.
Speaker A:Like, I was not caring about session zero backstories.
Speaker A:The most information about my session zeros at the time were, do you know, what class are you being?
Speaker A:You know, what race are you being?
Speaker A:Just like, trying to coordinate with the players.
Speaker A:Like, I've got this person being this.
Speaker A:You can be whatever you want, but if you want to be something different, this one's already taken.
Speaker B:You guys are working on building this little maximizing killer crew that you could because you knew you'd be thrown together on whatever the quest was.
Speaker A:Yep.
Speaker A:A lot of session zeros I've seen these days tend to involve a questionnaire that come, you know, with safety tools and triggers and everything like that.
Speaker A:We'll go over that in a little bit.
Speaker A:But that's just what I'm seeing with the, with the common direction is it's more about, like, here's the lore of my world.
Speaker A:What are people wanting to play?
Speaker A:Let's roll the stats maybe a little bit backstory information that the DM might pull on later.
Speaker A:And I, I, I can't imagine that there is a good, great DM out there that does not pull in backstory.
Speaker A:I mean, if we just go to what we see on Matt Mercer or Brendan Lee Mulligan, Dimension 20 and those type of campaigns or Total Party Kill is a really great one too, is all of those touch on player backstories So I guarantee you, even though we don't see their session zeros, they are.
Speaker A:They are taking.
Speaker A:They're going through what their characters, backstories are.
Speaker B:You know, I don't know if you've seen Egg and Dunk yet, the.
Speaker B:The TV show, but if you haven't, I'm not going to spoil too much for you, but it's kind of like a session zero.
Speaker B:You're seeing this.
Speaker B:This five minutes into the show, this young knight, potential knight, we don't know if he is or not.
Speaker B:His.
Speaker B:His lord is the guy that he's a squire and his master dies and he's just left by himself, and he has no idea what to do.
Speaker B:And so the only thing he thinks of is nearby there's a tournament.
Speaker B:And I'm just going to throw caution to the wind and take my chances at this tournament and try to win my luck, potentially die.
Speaker B:And if you lose at the tournament, you give up everything you have.
Speaker B:And the only thing he has is a horse.
Speaker A:And.
Speaker B:And basically, if he knows he gives up his horse, he's like, pretty much going to be a peasant.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:And that was, like, to me, an awesome example of session zero.
Speaker B:You're, you know, you're not session zero.
Speaker B:That's more of like a backstory.
Speaker B:Right?
Speaker B:So, yeah, but that would be more of a backstory example.
Speaker B:But that backstory is great because that.
Speaker B:That character will watch in the evolution of him who later becomes something huge.
Speaker A:Well, I mean, you can extrapolate with this.
Speaker A:Session zero was from that, like, oh, I'm gonna be a knight.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:My master's gonna be dead.
Speaker A:And.
Speaker A:And.
Speaker A:And I want to become a knight.
Speaker B:Well, me.
Speaker B:I mean, perfect example.
Speaker B:I mean, if we were doing.
Speaker B:If we were playing that game and you were playing that night, I would have.
Speaker B:I would have done.
Speaker B:Even gone further back.
Speaker B:I probably would have played a little while where you were playing with your master.
Speaker B:So when you lost him, it resonated more with you versus me starting game one.
Speaker B:Your master died.
Speaker B:You don't know who he is.
Speaker B:Yeah, we played a couple sessions with him, and you had this relationship.
Speaker B:When he died, it resonate with you more.
Speaker B:And.
Speaker B:And then we would continue.
Speaker A:I haven't seen the TV show, but they show any scenes of him with his master.
Speaker B:They do do flashbacks, which is great.
Speaker A:So they kind of do.
Speaker B:There is.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:Yes.
Speaker A:So, yeah, you got perfect setup, backstory leading right into it.
Speaker A:So.
Speaker A:Yeah, the most.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:So to answer the question, what most people do is.
Speaker A:And I'm not going to answer this for, you know, most people, because I cannot speak for every other campaign out there.
Speaker A:I can only speak to what most experience have I been through, how I done myself, and that is just set some ground rules, go over the lore and all that.
Speaker A:But.
Speaker B:Well, there's one other thing I wanted to ask you.
Speaker B:So there are many styles of playing.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:There are guys that enjoy, you know, combat rich games.
Speaker B:We've had guys that have.
Speaker B:I've had guys over the year that joined the game and kind of dropped out because ours is definitely a very role playing, this combat, in my opinion.
Speaker B:There's enough combat.
Speaker B:It isn't just combat, combat, combat, but there's a story, lots of role playing.
Speaker B:There's probably 85% role playing or 80% role playing, 20% combat, depending on where you are.
Speaker B:And don't you think that when you first starting your game, new players, it's something that you would share with them about your style of play so they kind of have an idea what to expect.
Speaker A:Absolutely.
Speaker A:Because if you have expectations going, I mean, what's the, the, what's that old saying?
Speaker A:Expectations are the thief of joy.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:So like, you know, having expectations is like I went into your game, no expectations.
Speaker A:I can 100% say that I genuinely enjoyed prepping for our campaign just because the experience I had with you, just conversations that we went back and forth about building my character.
Speaker A:The care that you showed, which I call this session zero.
Speaker A:The care that you showed in the interests of what I was aiming for and the cooperation that you afforded to me.
Speaker B:Yep.
Speaker A:Made it very easy for me to walk in and just have no expectations about the game.
Speaker B:Well, it's definitely an investment.
Speaker A:I mean but, but telling people who do play a lot who as players.
Speaker B:Yep.
Speaker A:I 100 agree.
Speaker A:Like I do, I do when I ask people when I start campaigns is which of these are the most important to you?
Speaker A:Combat, role play, puzzles and put them in order.
Speaker B:Well, like we just had a new player join.
Speaker B:He'd been playing for a while and he's experienced a lot of games and he said that this was the most.
Speaker B:We used the word different.
Speaker B:I took it as a positive.
Speaker B:This is a very different game for him.
Speaker B:But I'm under the impression that he's enjoying it.
Speaker B:But my understanding is the games he had played were probably more heavier combat and less role play.
Speaker B:But I'm under the impression that he's enjoying the game.
Speaker A:I think combat, I would 100 agree.
Speaker A:Just, just some stuff he said to me is he's, he's loved it like Just like, best experience in the world was when he played his backstory with his family.
Speaker A:The way that he wrote his epilogue and sent it, shared it with all of us.
Speaker A:Like, it shows passion and care for the character that they had.
Speaker A:Even though, what, they played him for months?
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:All in, like, forget the time we didn't play in between, but, like, he only got to play with the character for a month.
Speaker B:I also think that the fact that you.
Speaker B:You have a.
Speaker B:You have players who are invested in their backstory.
Speaker B:You have a DM that's invested in working with them with their backstory.
Speaker B:You're seeing, like, that this communal investment.
Speaker A:You.
Speaker B:You both kind of trying harder and the game is just better because of it.
Speaker A:Yeah, well, I mean.
Speaker A:Well, it actually kind of brings.
Speaker A:It circles into kind of how.
Speaker A:What you're talking about.
Speaker A:What are the common mistakes that you may see with people with their session zero.
Speaker A:You know, too much information or not enough direction or not setting those expectations of like, this is a very role play heavy game.
Speaker A:What does that even mean?
Speaker A:Does it call it a role play heavy game?
Speaker A:Is it voices?
Speaker A:Do I have to act?
Speaker A:Do I have to dress up?
Speaker B:I mean, I. I don't have expectations of players as far as voices or anything like that.
Speaker B:The only thing that I have, the only expectation that I have is after we kind of make a character and we've created this background together that you do the best you can to play that background.
Speaker B:Do you know what I mean?
Speaker B:To play that, that.
Speaker B:That guy that we have made together and not kind of, you know, deviate.
Speaker B:Because this is the session zero, you know, this is.
Speaker B:We've created who your guy is.
Speaker B:As long as you play that, you haven't played him yet.
Speaker B:So we don't know what his voice sounds like.
Speaker B:We don't know, you know, the choices that he's gonna make.
Speaker B:We're gonna see learn that together.
Speaker B:But the only thing I expect is after you've made this guy, based on what you've told me, your best interpretation of that, that's all I can expect.
Speaker A:Sure.
Speaker B:You know?
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:Makes sense to me.
Speaker A:And as far as role play goes and like, when I hear role play every game, I just mean make the choices that make the.
Speaker A:Can't talk.
Speaker A:Make the choices that make the most sense for your character.
Speaker B:Absolutely.
Speaker B:I mean, it's appreciated when you have.
Speaker B:I mean, I've had guys show up here in cloaks playing.
Speaker B:I've got guys that show up in, you know, that play females and have female voices, but I've had guys that show up, play females and don't use female voices and that's fine too.
Speaker B:You play a lot of voices, which is great.
Speaker B:It definitely adds to the immersion of the game, but it's not required.
Speaker B:What to me is the most important thing is play that character the best of your ability, as true as you can, and the game just benefits from it.
Speaker B:Any of that other stuff, you want to show up in a cloak with ears on you.
Speaker A:Cool.
Speaker A:You're not playing a Paladin of Law and then immediately breaking the law without a damn good reason.
Speaker B:Yeah, exactly.
Speaker B:I mean, just play the best that you can with the character that we've made up together.
Speaker A:Awesome.
Speaker B:What about, what about your idea?
Speaker B:What do you.
Speaker B:You bring in new players.
Speaker B:I mean, what you do as far as like vetting them, Is there anything that you do so you know this is going to be a good fit.
Speaker B:This is not.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:So I'm, I'm.
Speaker A:I think you're probably a little bit stricter than I am on this.
Speaker A:But, but I.
Speaker A:As long as the conversation seems to go well, I'll usually try to do like what I did not too long ago is I was trying to set up a DC20 potential campaign and just meet some people who are interested in New England who are looking for a game.
Speaker B:Yep.
Speaker A:And one of them actually ended up joining our campaign, which is Darren.
Speaker A:But we, I had both of them come.
Speaker B:Good find too.
Speaker A:Yeah, both of them come.
Speaker A:We did a, we did a one shot.
Speaker A:I, you know, we spent a little bit of time going over characters.
Speaker A:One of them definitely put more work than the other person.
Speaker A:Looked at the rules, didn't look at the rules.
Speaker A:And then we sat down and played and I kept.
Speaker A:It was a very role play heavy game.
Speaker A:So we didn't get to the mechanics, but I just touched on it and short small combats here and there.
Speaker A:But like it was just about what was the vibe of the table?
Speaker A:Like, I won't start a campaign unless that vibe at the table is there.
Speaker A:Like, if there are people I can feel like make a really great addition to the game, then I'm going to be like, hey, I would love to continue playing with you and I may not recontact anyone who I wasn't vibing with is all.
Speaker A:Because I just think, and this is, I don't think this is saying anything rude or dismissive, but I just think there are chemistries that work at a table and there's chemistries that aren't.
Speaker A:It's not, not to insult anybody.
Speaker A:I think that everyone has A table out there for them.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:I mean, 100%, this table might not be for you.
Speaker B:And you know what?
Speaker B:That's a good thing for them.
Speaker B:That's a good thing for you.
Speaker B:You don't want to have, you know, tension or have the guy not have fun, and you don't want to have fun, and you don't want to have distractions.
Speaker B:You saying, like, I am.
Speaker B:I basically, I. I vet guys.
Speaker B:I meet them before they ever sit at.
Speaker B:Sit down and play with me.
Speaker B:I go meet them at some random location.
Speaker B:They have beer, a bar, a beer, and we sit down, we talk, and I just tell him a little bit about the game.
Speaker B:I listen to him talk, and I just.
Speaker B:Again, I get a feel for as this guy, you know, is going to be invested because I put a lot of time, effort, energy.
Speaker B:I have a story I want to tell, and I want someone that's gonna, you know, want to participate and be invested or try to be as invested as I am.
Speaker B:And I also don't want, you know, sometimes you get guys that are very political and come with baggage and those type of red flags.
Speaker B:You know what I mean?
Speaker B:I. I just want.
Speaker B:I don't care.
Speaker B:We play together, our guys.
Speaker B:We don't talk politics.
Speaker B:We come, we meet every Sunday.
Speaker B:We have a great time, and that's what it's about.
Speaker A:The only conversation.
Speaker A:The only conversation we all.
Speaker A:Besides me and you.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:The only conversation that we generally have together is about the game.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:Like, we may talk a little bit like, oh, how's your life doing?
Speaker A:Before we start?
Speaker A:And we may chat a little bit about that, but ultimately, like, we just.
Speaker A:It's about the game.
Speaker A:We were spending five, four to six hours a week almost just spending time playing this game that we all love.
Speaker A:So it's just, like, leave the drama at the door.
Speaker A:The only drama I want to see, it's in game drama.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:Where you're dropping dice.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:And I mean, a lot of the guys that are in that game, some travel pretty far too, you know, so they're definitely invested.
Speaker B:But that's the players that I'm looking for.
Speaker A:Hour, right?
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:Dave travels from another state.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:I mean, you want players that.
Speaker B:I mean, what are red flags for you?
Speaker A:Red flags for me.
Speaker A:If you're gonna get.
Speaker A:If you're gonna get really emotional about choices that players are making, not necessarily characters, but, like, if you're in character, gets emotional about a decision, that is one thing.
Speaker A:But if you bring that out of the game, that's probably the one of the biggest red flags for me because I mean you.
Speaker A:You saw like that whole breakdown that we had recently our campaign where one person did not go along and there was a betrayal which some people can take very personally.
Speaker A:It was something that we were all worried about.
Speaker B:To give some context, you and another player character.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:Did not.
Speaker B:You guys decided on two different things.
Speaker A:Yep.
Speaker A:Two different directions.
Speaker B:Two different directions.
Speaker B:And it was a huge decision because you guys literally were parting ways potentially after several two years of role playing.
Speaker B:Potentially forever.
Speaker A:Yep.
Speaker B:And.
Speaker A:And we.
Speaker A:We were the original two for the campaign.
Speaker A:We were the day session zero, session one was all there.
Speaker B:Their characters had completely different ideas of what to do and they communicated in game and out of game and out of game and they just could not agree.
Speaker B:And when this happened, when this split happened, it was a little violent and but everyone at the table was completely.
Speaker A:And we say in game violent.
Speaker A:Not, not table.
Speaker B:But there was no like no one was butthurt.
Speaker B:Everyone like in it made sense what was happening in game.
Speaker B:So no one brought it outside of the game.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:And so like for me it's.
Speaker A:It's imagine it's an imagination.
Speaker A:I understand it's not personal a lot of time, but yeah, it's not personal.
Speaker A:It's like you're just trying to roll again.
Speaker A:Role play heavy game.
Speaker A:We're just trying to role play to the best of our ability.
Speaker A:And I think that one of the green flags for everyone here is that like we appreciate the overall story more than.
Speaker A:More than a single session and single decision.
Speaker A:And I think because we appreciate the overall story to such a high degree that we almost sometimes don't care what happens to our individual characters as long as the story makes sense.
Speaker A:Yeah, but that's like bringing emotion outside the game is one of the biggest red flags.
Speaker B:I would say red flags for me.
Speaker B:A lot of them I can't even.
Speaker B:I.
Speaker B:Even when I first met these guys, I meet them, they're nice guys.
Speaker B:They're seam invested.
Speaker B:They've got some experience role playing.
Speaker B:They.
Speaker B:They hear, you know, I give them.
Speaker B:I tell them about some of the games that I've ran and I'll even give them examples of some scenes that have happened and they sound.
Speaker B:Sounds like a great fit.
Speaker B:But then when they come they play sometimes you start discovering red flags mid session.
Speaker B:You got, you got some guys that will argumentative about rules and you know, don't understand that the.
Speaker B:The rule of cool or, or that you know, whoever's running the game may have ideas about what's happening that doesn't necessarily want to tell you why.
Speaker B:And you just kind of got to step back and just let the DM quarterback the game.
Speaker A:You know, this is one.
Speaker A:One of my weaknesses because I tend to.
Speaker A:Tend to lean on, like, rules a little bit and, like, how it works.
Speaker A:But I've always told you, like, hey, if I'm ever being too much.
Speaker B:No, no, no.
Speaker B:And I hear you.
Speaker B:I mean, sometimes there's a way in your game to make anything happen.
Speaker B:You don't have to look up a spell or anything.
Speaker B:If you're the DM and you're telling a story and your players looking up, well, how did you do that?
Speaker B:That guy just needs to take.
Speaker B:Calm down, just go with the story.
Speaker A:Talk about compartmentalization, because the DM in me understands that 100%.
Speaker A:The player in me was like, that's not the rule, Scott.
Speaker B:How did he do that?
Speaker B:I need to know.
Speaker B:Okay, it's page seven, you know, third.
Speaker B:You know, but.
Speaker A:But no, I've.
Speaker A:One of the things I do appreciate is you're very patient, understanding, and so I always, like, try to reflect on my games and just be like, all right, I. I'm definitely need to speak a little bit less when it comes to the rules.
Speaker B:I mean, rules are important.
Speaker B:I mean, absolutely important.
Speaker B:But, yeah, so I would say that's a red flag for me.
Speaker B:You know, you get those guys that are rules lawyers, and I can't think of anything else, just the rules lawyers or, you know, hate guys that are on the phone.
Speaker B:But I mean, it's not like a rule breaker for me, you know, I mean, like a hard no.
Speaker B:But I really appreciate when everyone's listening to everyone else's story because it's.
Speaker B:Even if.
Speaker B:Even if you're doing something on your own, I think it's.
Speaker B:It's their story too.
Speaker B:You know what I mean?
Speaker A:No, I.
Speaker A:And.
Speaker A:And I, I.
Speaker A:Same thing.
Speaker A:Like, I do.
Speaker A:I do hate it when people will be on their phones in the middle of something.
Speaker A:Roleplay.
Speaker A:Even if it has nothing to do with you.
Speaker A:I mean, I do.
Speaker A:As someone who's got a wife who's pregnant, unexpected, on the way, I do sometimes have my phone right there in case I need to address her.
Speaker A:She's sometimes not okay with me being gone for four to six hours.
Speaker A:So like, like, that's something I have to do on my hands.
Speaker A:So I do respect those situations for people.
Speaker A:But.
Speaker A:And you never know what's going on in someone's life.
Speaker A:But if, for the most part, people are putting down their phones, paying attention and engaging.
Speaker A:It can go either way for me.
Speaker A:But it circles to a topic we've brought up before in the past and I mentioned it earlier in the session just.
Speaker A:But the concept of safety tools.
Speaker A:There's a lot these days with people having a sheet saying like what what may trigger you in a game or what is something that you're uncomfortable with experiencing or seeing in game.
Speaker A:There's more and more of that happening these days.
Speaker A:So is that, is that a red flag?
Speaker A:Is that, that I know that's not something you utilize.
Speaker B:No, I mean, I'm an old school guy.
Speaker A:Safety checklist is what.
Speaker B:I definitely would not.
Speaker B:Don't use a safety checklist.
Speaker B:I mean if you were grown, grown men, women.
Speaker B:We're playing a game and you know, it's, we're imagining things, violent things, bad things.
Speaker B:And it's, it's, it's like watching a movie.
Speaker B:I definitely don't ask if things are going to bother someone.
Speaker B:If some, if something happens in game and they tell me about it, that's, that's different.
Speaker B:But I definitely am not doing like a, an interview or a checklist about what is going to trigger people because my thinking is, hey, we're all just sitting here playing a game and nothing.
Speaker B:I can't speak about other people's trauma, but you know, that's my position, is that nothing that's happening at this table is real.
Speaker B:Nothing is meant to hurt or offend.
Speaker B:It is make believe.
Speaker B:It is watching a movie, you're playing a role like an actor in a movie, you know that no one is really getting raped, no one's really getting murdered, you know, and so that's me personally, I don't ask those questions because I'm assuming that everyone is, you know, in a good place to be sitting at a table where violent and bad things are going to happen in this game, you know.
Speaker A:Well, and, and I agree with you there.
Speaker A:And honestly, when in again, I think it just depends on what your expectations are as a player.
Speaker A:But if you're looking for a PG fun, go, lucky, good always wins type game, then you know there's going to be a lot of games out there that really aren't for you.
Speaker A:Because if you want to be a hero, if you, you know, and really triumph over evil, well, guess what?
Speaker A:You've got to face evil.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:And you're gonna have to do.
Speaker B:You know, there's, there's violence in these games.
Speaker B:There's, you know, I tend to go sometimes my games are pretty dark and, and I have told my players hey, this next one's gonna be pretty dark.
Speaker B:And dark means, you know, there's gonna be some things that aren't acceptable, you know what I mean, in society, but that, you know, there are games like, you know, like where you have genocide.
Speaker B:I mean, I don't support genocide in any way, but it's a game, you know what I mean?
Speaker A:Well, in, in that manner, it's like if you, if it makes you uncomfortable, congratulations, you're a normal moral human being.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:And I think that's a great quality for you to be uncomfortable.
Speaker B:I mean, I would hate if we were playing and something happened to game and a player broke down because it, you know, it affected him some way.
Speaker B:But, you know, that's never happened.
Speaker B:I hope it never does.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:And, and I, again, I'm not, not trying to dismiss anyone's sensitivities and all or anything like that, but at the same time, like, I, I, you know, there is this, you know, player psychology concept and you know, there's this concept of exposure therapy.
Speaker A:And so like, the more that you're exposed to something, the more you're, you're able to kind of face it and overcome it.
Speaker A:And so even if you are someone, and this is actually a very common tool like D and D and the DD is widely used, widely used for therapeutic reasons, I'm sure.
Speaker A:And, and for helping kids even learn math who struggle with math and, or even teaching social concept and social consequences for people with neurodevelopmental issues.
Speaker A:So if you are someone who deals with any of those things, if anything, you should play, you should play and face more of that in game as someone who is working through and trying to overcome it.
Speaker A:And again, remembering that nothing in the game is personal.
Speaker A:It's just, you know, we're here to tell a story.
Speaker B:Yeah, exactly.
Speaker B:We're, that's all we're doing is telling a story.
Speaker B:We're not, you know, none of those things are, would be acceptable by any of us.
Speaker A:And, and saving the world wouldn't mean as much if the challenge or the evil wasn't so great.
Speaker B:Evil.
Speaker B:Yeah, if he wasn't evil.
Speaker B:Yeah, Absolutely.
Speaker B:Agreed.
Speaker B:Do you think when you're performing session zero, you're, you know, you've got like a clear direction on after you do session zero, you, you've mapped out everything with your players, you know, where they are in the world is that when you kind of like step back and kind of create where, where you're going to go from there, or have you already known it beforehand or have an idea and then kind of work on that idea after you kind of know where you are.
Speaker A:Well, before I met you, it definitely would have been the working backwards type of situation, because obviously when you start with a module, you know where you're starting.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:But now I play more sandboxing even when I've done modules.
Speaker A:And I.
Speaker A:More recently, like, if I.
Speaker A:If I do a module, I will step back before the even module begins to run backstories.
Speaker A:So that.
Speaker A:Because I want players to come together naturally.
Speaker A:This is exactly what we did with my cousin Vinnies.
Speaker A:Yeah, yeah, my cousin Vinnie.
Speaker A:My cousin Minnie's campaign where we.
Speaker A:We put.
Speaker A:Played Curse of Strahd.
Speaker A:And so before we even went to Barovia, we're sucked in it.
Speaker A:We played every character's backstory and wove everyone in together and became a party before we ever got sucked into that.
Speaker B:No, that's what.
Speaker B:That's very cool.
Speaker A:And it was awesome.
Speaker A:And it made.
Speaker A:It was much more reason for us to stick together, given what we've gone through together.
Speaker A:And there's already party dynamics and problems going into an evil domain where you're.
Speaker B:Challenged even with your.
Speaker B:Even with your module or if you're creating your own campaign.
Speaker B:It's like you've got your campaign idea in the back of your head.
Speaker B:You know the story you're gonna tell y.
Speaker B:So you put that in the back burner.
Speaker B:And right now you just.
Speaker B:Session zero is finding out who they.
Speaker B:These people are.
Speaker B:And kind of when you start next week or whenever you start, you're launching them from there with your campaign and in the background, it's not necessarily just going to drop that next session.
Speaker A:Exactly.
Speaker A:And, well, and to 100% agree.
Speaker A:And I don't know how much of that.
Speaker A:I know you've been working on this campaign for a long time, but obviously, when we started our sessions, zeros and we did everything, how much of what we went through was planned way ahead of time.
Speaker A:And how much of it.
Speaker A:How much came together?
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker B:No, I mean, literally, I would say the first six months of playing had nothing.
Speaker B:I would say.
Speaker B:No, I'd say about three months into playing, that's when my campaign started to hatch.
Speaker B:But for the first three months, we definitely was.
Speaker B:We definitely were playing like the problems that you guys were having in the city with F's father being a mafia boss, you trying to get.
Speaker B:Get into the.
Speaker B:The Brotherhood, this Assassins Guild, and the problems that you guys were having there.
Speaker B:Often times, your players, if, you know, I believe they think that these problems are the campaign and then.
Speaker B:And then you're.
Speaker A:There was no reason to think otherwise.
Speaker B:You know what I mean?
Speaker B:But.
Speaker B:And then slowly comes in this.
Speaker B:The campaign introduces itself.
Speaker B:And so now these little problems that you're having, you owe this guy money and you have to hide from him.
Speaker B:Those problems seem small compared to your overall campaign that just kind of fell onto your lap.
Speaker A:Well.
Speaker A:And when Scott says campaign hatching, if you've seen Jurassic park and the raptor breaking out of the shell, it's like, come on.
Speaker A:Come on, little buddy.
Speaker A:You can do it.
Speaker A:Like that.
Speaker A:That was how slow it was before the campaign really hit us.
Speaker B:Well, I was really enjoying.
Speaker B:And this is the very thing I'm talking about, the ideas that you gave me about your character's backstory and.
Speaker B:And f. Skip backstory.
Speaker B:It was so much fun just playing off those backstories for a long time and let you guys, like, really get to know each other in the city, get to, like, get tied into the city and kind of get enveloped in what was going on with the city that it made them.
Speaker B:When the campaign, the actual big story arrived, it made it much sweeter because you guys already had a whole bunch of stuff going on already, and it was just like, well, our problems that we have right now are not real big problems compared to this that's coming.
Speaker A:If.
Speaker A:If I'm being honest, I honestly think that.
Speaker A:I think set the session 0 and the.
Speaker A:The character backstories are the things that I look forward to most about a campaign and not necessarily my overarching story.
Speaker A:Because even though I, you know, I have this Overarcher story, which I think is really cool, the module that I'm building right now, but I even go so far as to go before session one and even write about how to do character backstories for every character choice that you can make in the very beginning.
Speaker A:Because I want people to get enveloped, immersed in the world, and I want people to get to know their characters and kind of get.
Speaker A:Also give guidance to DMs who've never run something like this to.
Speaker A:All right, now take those, and before you even get over here, have fun with it.
Speaker A:Like.
Speaker A:Like.
Speaker A:Like do whatever you want.
Speaker A:Or follow these guides in chapters one and two, which are going to.
Speaker A:Which are going to be opportunities for the characters to get to know each other as a party.
Speaker B:Absolutely.
Speaker B:Would you agree that session zero is.
Speaker B:You're giving general information to the players about the world, common knowledge.
Speaker B:You're giving them more detailed information about where they're starting, and then you're allowing them to enter that world with their characters and their backstories.
Speaker B:And then from there, from that right there.
Speaker B:From that right there.
Speaker B:You're plotting on where to go to from there.
Speaker A:Oh yeah, absolutely.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:And I, I think I enjoy that most because I feel like I'm making it so much more personal for my characters, which is its own art form.
Speaker A:But just.
Speaker A:We'll take a quick break there.
Speaker A:Just want to give some people some highlights of one what we're going to do in one of the future podcasts.
Speaker A:Don't know if it's going to be next one or the one after, but we're working on some podcast reoccurring segments.
Speaker A:One being Forged in Chaos, which will be an opportunity to see me and DM Scott roleplay a little bit.
Speaker A:We've got some characters that we played for a long time and basically randomly roll a scene, randomly roll a scene prompt and randomly roll a goal and then we will act that out and see what kind of shenanigans we can get into as a fun little thing.
Speaker A:One reoccurring segment we will do today and we'll just do that right now is we're going to go this is called Forged and frame fracture.
Speaker A:And so these will be a few statements, quick prompts and we will either say forged or fractured and have 30 seconds to justify that answer.
Speaker A:So forged or fractures, Session zero is mandatory.
Speaker B:Forged.
Speaker B:Why Session zero?
Speaker B:Because it's your.
Speaker B:Your stuff.
Speaker B:It's the launch pad of your whole game.
Speaker B:Your players introduction to the world, your introduction to the players.
Speaker B:You stepping back, getting a game plan where you're going to go.
Speaker A:Forged.
Speaker A:100% Agree.
Speaker A:You are not.
Speaker A:You were getting a chance to get to know the players characters but also use them as leverage into building your own world.
Speaker A:What they come up with can flush out more of your world, things you haven't even thought of before, but concepts that they do and then be able to gear it towards that way.
Speaker A:All right, next one.
Speaker A:Players should agree on tone theme beforehand.
Speaker B:For me, Fracture, no, because I have a story I'm going to tell and I already know who my players are and I'm the one telling the story.
Speaker B:I'm the one working on the story.
Speaker B:I don't necessarily involve my players with my ideas for my story.
Speaker B:I just build them and then introduce them to.
Speaker B:I don't really tell them much about what it's going to be.
Speaker B:I don't really.
Speaker B:All I do is basically we said in session zero, give them the background where they're starting what's going on in the world.
Speaker B:Make up a character.
Speaker B:Let's go.
Speaker B:I don't tell them about anything that I'm going to do.
Speaker B:I don't set my end.
Speaker B:And I'm curious which, what do you say?
Speaker A:I say fractured too.
Speaker A:But like the only thing that I would say is Forged is just giving him a heads up of whether or not this is to going.
Speaker A:Going to be a low or high magic theme.
Speaker A:Oh yeah, that's.
Speaker A:Those are the only things that I would say is like, or if you're, you know, a little bit of expectation.
Speaker B:Or what if you're running a campaign of evil characters.
Speaker A:I might say, look, this is either PG, PG 13, rated R or X.
Speaker A:And X is rare.
Speaker A:But, but, but rated R is probably where I would lean.
Speaker A:If you can't watch a rated R movie, you probably shouldn't be at my table.
Speaker B:Yeah, wait till you run an evil character game.
Speaker A:Oh, now that's character.
Speaker A:So next statement.
Speaker A:Characters should be created before session zero.
Speaker B:Yeah, I mean, I mean it is.
Speaker B:That is session zero is the character creation with the world.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:So Forged and, and I'll say forged with this and with the caveat is just saying when we say session zero, it is not necessarily everyone coming together to sit down and talk it out.
Speaker A:You can certainly do that.
Speaker A:But session zero is a drawn out process of conversations that you have with your players and party in order to figure out who that character is going to be.
Speaker B:Sometimes it's several weeks.
Speaker A:So the only thing I would say this fracture is you may not necessarily know have any idea who your character is before you start that conversation.
Speaker A:But before the end of session zero, you should know who your character is.
Speaker A:Next statement.
Speaker A:The party should start united.
Speaker B:Fractured.
Speaker B:Absolutely not the only time I ever start players together.
Speaker B:I mean I don't always start them separate, but I mean if you got five or six players that are playing and two want to start knowing each other, it's not difficult to make them know each other.
Speaker A:Sure.
Speaker B:But I would never make all six know each other.
Speaker B:Yeah, I just wouldn't.
Speaker B:I truly enjoy the part of playing each character by themselves and letting them learn their own path and I really enjoy weaving them together.
Speaker B:You know, it's a challenge for me.
Speaker B:It's fun for them and, and it just feels more organic.
Speaker B:So I never start them all together.
Speaker A:I also say fractured.
Speaker A:The only thing that I would say that I, that you would want to start everyone together is if you are doing a one shot where it's.
Speaker A:You got no other choice.
Speaker A:But other than that, if you're doing a long, drawn out campaign.
Speaker A:Go back, watch our first podcast about backstories and origin stories and just see what we talk about when it comes to playing and introducing characters.
Speaker A:And the players get to know their characters much better.
Speaker A:The DM gets to know their characters much better.
Speaker A:The other players get to know each other's characters in a way where it feels more organic for them to know each other than they do.
Speaker B:I would bet that if any DM out there watches this and does that, they will never not do it again.
Speaker A:That's been my experience so far.
Speaker A:Last statement.
Speaker A:The DM should explain the world up front.
Speaker B:Absolutely.
Speaker A:Forged.
Speaker B:Yeah, forged 100.
Speaker B:I mean, just general information.
Speaker B:And then, then you.
Speaker B:You give general information, but then you zoom in on the player.
Speaker B:If the player is a thief in the community, if he's a knight in the community, then he's gonna have information.
Speaker B:Everyone has the general information.
Speaker B:Everyone who's the king, who the bad guys are, or whatever the general knowledge is.
Speaker B:But then each player should get additional knowledge based on his station.
Speaker B:You know, the, the orphan, the knight, this or that.
Speaker B:They have some unique information and it should be shared with just them because they're going to play that information that they have because it's unique to them.
Speaker A:Yeah, exactly.
Speaker A:Forged.
Speaker A:You can't know your character without, or who you want to be without knowing a little bit about the world.
Speaker A:If the demographics say there are no Dragonborn in this world, then you can't choose a Dragonborn.
Speaker A:And that's important knowledge for a character to be able to know.
Speaker A:Or if you.
Speaker A:If they want to play a Dragonborn and it's a very, very rare race or ancestry, whatever you want to call it, then you have to be ready to face the consequences of what it's like to be a rare race or species.
Speaker B:And I've had that.
Speaker B:I've had characters.
Speaker B:I'm like, well, there are no drought.
Speaker B:There aren't any on the surface.
Speaker B:And I want to play one.
Speaker B:Well, I am right up front, you know the consequences of playing that character, so.
Speaker A:Yep, exactly.
Speaker A:And well, that was Forge and Fracture.
Speaker A:I don't know if we kept everything under 30 seconds, but we certainly did the best we could.
Speaker A:So next segment, which is going to be a recurring segment, is Table Tales, where we will each tell a quick story about something that happened in our most recent session that we think was particularly memorable and fun.
Speaker A:And just how the characters or players kind of.
Speaker A:How that situation kind of came about and why it was so great.
Speaker B:Well, that that could be something good.
Speaker B:We're playing tomorrow, so maybe I'll be telling the story where one of you.
Speaker A:Guys that'll be for the next podcast.
Speaker A:Yeah, but do you and I have one for last session.
Speaker A:But do you have any particulars from last session?
Speaker B:You know, I do.
Speaker B:We had a new player that came with us.
Speaker B:He just, he played only for a couple of months and kind of got into our campaign really late in the game and at a point in the middle, in the middle of the campaign for him, even though he's only been there for a couple months, his family was all killed, his children were missing, and he recently just recovered one of his children.
Speaker B:And after he like fled the underdark and got to a safe city, his Darren, who plays this.
Speaker B:This dwarf that has his.
Speaker B:His daughter that he saved, has no other family.
Speaker B:He's in a safe city now.
Speaker B:And he decided that it didn't make any sense for him to continue to travel with the rest of the party.
Speaker B:And so he retired his character, which I really, truly appreciated.
Speaker B:I didn't want him to retire the character, but I truly appreciated the fact that he thought to himself, if I'm this dwarf and I this, this little toddler has only got me, why in the hell am I going to be running around traveling with these guys who were just entering more danger?
Speaker B:I'm in a safe city, I'm retiring my guy.
Speaker B:And I thought that was awesome that he did that.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:And for me, you know, we.
Speaker A:Maybe this is me touting my own horn.
Speaker A:But when we were playing in that session before the they got out, you would have me be playing another dwarf, a fallen paladin.
Speaker B:You were playing an npc?
Speaker A:Yeah, I was playing an npc.
Speaker A:Helping them kind of get through the underdark a little bit needed given there's only two of them and it's a very dangerous place.
Speaker B:I know the part.
Speaker A:But there were two kind of parts of that that were really cool for me.
Speaker A:Number one was Darren, who was playing a cleric of the same God that this guy was.
Speaker A:He decided in that moment to use a spell which I never heard of before.
Speaker A:Didn't even know this was possible, but he had heard of.
Speaker A:But where he can use a spell in order to redeem him.
Speaker A:Because he was a fallen paladin.
Speaker A:He had.
Speaker A:He had made a mistake earlier on in his career that cost him some of his grace and he forgave him.
Speaker A:And it was just a completely out of the nowhere moment.
Speaker A:And that was so cool.
Speaker A:And fast forward to kind of his end is they were trying to make an escape.
Speaker A:And there was like this water, this chamber was filling up with water and there was a chain that needed to be pulled down that would raise them up and get out.
Speaker A:And so I decided in that moment that like, he would sacrifice himself, he would do the honorable thing.
Speaker A:And like he just, he gave him the God's grace back and.
Speaker A:And he want.
Speaker A:He.
Speaker A:The.
Speaker A:Darren's found his daughter and he needs to get them out.
Speaker A:So he stayed behind and pulled the chain that got them all the way out as the room was filling up with water.
Speaker A:And.
Speaker A:And again, like, it wasn't anything I planned, like I was fully planning on helping them out, but I was just like, what would this character do in this moment?
Speaker A:I felt like it was a little.
Speaker B:Underappreciated, but so to give some context, Darren is playing his dwarf.
Speaker B:He's in search of his missing daughter.
Speaker B:As I just said, he found her and on his way to look for her, he finds another dwarf that's roaming the countryside.
Speaker B:That dwarf was an NPC that you played.
Speaker B:And that dwarf was a fallen paladin, disgraced paladin, excommunicated from the church.
Speaker B:But Darren, who's playing this dwarf, is a priest, still a full fledged priest.
Speaker B:And you decide to help him because you know, you're hoping to atone.
Speaker B:And so you did, you like put yourself in grave danger.
Speaker B:And Darren recognized this and on his own looked up a way for you to get forgiveness.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:And then after that, after he, he did that for you because you saw how selfless this character was and his efforts to atone.
Speaker B:Your character continued to travel with them and when they were just on the cusp of dying, the character that he just saved sacrificed his life so they could escape.
Speaker B:It was.
Speaker B:Yeah, it was awesome.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:But he was like F. F. The F is probably.
Speaker A:David and F are probably one of the same.
Speaker A:Because he was like, you don't have to die.
Speaker A:Like, it was just like.
Speaker B:No, but I thought it was like, it was like a movie.
Speaker B:The guy like, you know, the guy helped you redeem yourself.
Speaker B:And then this characters could potentially die, but you've just been redeemed.
Speaker B:You're going to be welcome to heaven.
Speaker B:So you're like, you know what?
Speaker B:I'm prepared to die right now to make sure you live and you basically drown to make sure that they escaped.
Speaker B:Yeah, yeah, it was very cool.
Speaker A:But that's pretty much it for today.
Speaker A:But just some last takeaways.
Speaker A:Is there any last bit of advice that you would give anyone who's Preparing for their DM?
Speaker A:Campaign for their Session 0.
Speaker B:I'm going to say this.
Speaker B:In every single session there is.
Speaker B:Watch episode one.
Speaker B:Episode one.
Speaker B:To me, that sets everything straight.
Speaker B:If you get your characters to play by themselves and work with their backstories and fit them into your world, your game is gonna be so much better.
Speaker A:Yeah, that's probably great advice.
Speaker A:I probably would have.
Speaker B:I just think out of everything that we do, I think that that has been the thing that's really enriched our game.
Speaker A:I.
Speaker A:Well, I think it seeps into every.
Speaker A:It will seep into every podcast.
Speaker B:Right?
Speaker B:It's definitely tied into session zero.
Speaker A:Oh, yeah, yeah.
Speaker A:No, I 100% agree with that.
Speaker A:I think that's the only advice.
Speaker A:And.
Speaker A:And if you're.
Speaker A:If you're someone who is worried about finding a table, like, you know, just.
Speaker A:Just keep trying.
Speaker A:Like, if you.
Speaker A:You will find a table out there for you.
Speaker A:If you're new to the game, don't worry about how you look, how you sound, or.
Speaker A:Or whatever.
Speaker A:Just come with an enthusiasm to tell a great story.
Speaker A:You know, watch episode one to learn a little bit more about backstories and just be in a cooperative mindset when you go in with your dm, like, they're.
Speaker A:We're.
Speaker A:We're here to work together to tell a great story.
Speaker A:If the DM is not cooperative, that is not your table.
Speaker A:If the player is not cooperative with the dm, that is not your table.
Speaker A:No.
Speaker B:All the time.
Speaker B:We always say.
Speaker B:We always say like, at the end of the session, like, that was a great session.
Speaker B:I never say it's because of me.
Speaker B:It's like, it's.
Speaker B:It's definitely.
Speaker B:It's a community effort.
Speaker B:I have good ideas.
Speaker B:You guys make them better.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:You know, and vice versa.
Speaker A:So thanks again for listening, guys.
Speaker A:Again, I'm the nerd doctor here to diagnose what's wrong with your RPG game and here to help you fix it.
Speaker A:Here with the dm.
Speaker A:Scott, our next one, it was gonna be.
Speaker A:Do you remember what we were gonna do?
Speaker A:I don't remember what we were gonna do.
Speaker A:I will post about what the next podcast we are gonna do because I know it's in there.
Speaker B:You're the responsible one, too.
Speaker A:I know, I know.
Speaker A:It's.
Speaker B:It's written the organized and responsible.
Speaker A:It's written down somewhere.
Speaker B:No notes.
Speaker B:Notes.
Speaker B:No notes.
Speaker A:It's written down.
Speaker A:And I will post about what the next podcast is going to be and when is date.
Speaker A:Right now we're looking at.
Speaker A:Seems like every other week, but I think we'll just try to do it every time we can.
Speaker A:So we might have one that happened maybe next weekend, maybe two weeks.
Speaker B:What are you thinking about?
Speaker B:For future ones.
Speaker B:You have ideas?
Speaker A:I do.
Speaker A:I have a list of them.
Speaker A:Yeah, but it's notes.
Speaker A:It's not coming to mind right now.
Speaker B:Okay.
Speaker A:Have a great rest of your day, guys.
